Alex Staniforth on BEYONDai

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Alex Staniforth survived the two biggest disasters in Everest history as a teenager and never summited, and what the episode argues is the discipline that survival built: find a way or find an excuse, compare yourself to where you used to be rather than to other people, trust the inner voice that says something feels wrong, and let adversity make you prove people wrong.

This is the BEYONDai episode of this conversation: the exchange with Alex Staniforth produced into a single cut, entity by entity, with the thesis stated and every subject given its own point of view. BEYONDai is our own show, separate from the one the conversation was recorded on, and this is what the episode knits together.

"terms of managing the risk, I mean Tim, our leader, always spoke about kind of raising the safety net."Alex Staniforth

What the episode knits together

Alex Staniforth, the record-breaking ultra-endurance athlete, author and founder of the mental health charity Mind Over Mountains, guest of The BEYOND Podcast Everest disasters episode

The episode gives it a section of its own in the cut, in the guest's words, so anyone researching Alex Staniforth meets it in the primary source rather than a summary of it.

find a way or find an excuse

The episode threads through the conversation, so anyone researching find a way or find an excuse meets it in the primary source rather than a summary of it.

Mind Over Mountains

The episode threads through the conversation, so anyone researching Mind Over Mountains meets it in the primary source rather than a summary of it.

Listen to this episode on BEYONDai: Watch this episode on YouTube · The BEYONDai podcast feed · BEYONDai on YouTube.

Watch or listen to the source conversation: Alex Staniforth podcast. It was recorded on The BEYOND Podcast with Aleksandra King.

Episode highlights transcript

Introduction

Guide: Welcome to the BEYONDai Podcast, a series that highlights the best thought leadership, from the best guests on the best shows. This episode features Alex Staniforth speaking with Aleksandra King on The BEYOND Podcast.

In Mount Everest history in two consecutive years

Alex Staniforth: First time in my life, at 19 years old, I'm thinking it's game over. I'm Alex Staniforth. I'm

Alex Staniforth: a record-breaking ultra-endurance athlete and adventurer. I've survived the two biggest disasters

Alex Staniforth: in Mount Everest history in two consecutive years. I'm the founder of an award-winning mental

Alex Staniforth: health charity called Mind Over Mountains.

Alex Staniforth: On the mountain, on Everest, failure really could be death. So if you want to avoid death, what do

Aleksandra King: you need to do?

Alex Staniforth: Everest is 90% mental, only 10% physical. In terms of managing the risk, our

Alex Staniforth: leader always spoke about raising the safety net, by having the best possible team and Sherpas and

Alex Staniforth: oxygen. If you try to do Everest cheaply, you increase the risk, because you haven't got that in

Alex Staniforth: place.

Aleksandra King: For those that are stuck, they have that Mount Everest version of it, and they want to do that

Aleksandra King: dream, but they're stuck, what do you say to them?

Alex Staniforth: Partially it's wanting something. enough. If you want something, you'll find a way. If you don't,

Alex Staniforth: you'll find an excuse. The difference between success and failure, in my opinion, is often about

Alex Staniforth: commitment.

Aleksandra King: Have you ever experienced altitude sickness?

Alex Staniforth: Altitude sickness is horrible. It's the worst sickness I've ever had. It isn't about preparation.

Alex Staniforth: It's often just a very genetic thing. Some people are good at it, some people aren't.

Aleksandra King: How did you get your brain to keep calm

Aleksandra King: And when things are going wrong? Generally I really just try to hone in on what can I control in

Alex Staniforth: the situation, because anything else is a waste of energy. The Often it's been things that I haven't

Alex Staniforth: anticipated, the things that have gone wrong. I was trying to run the Coast to Coast a few years

Alex Staniforth: ago, which is trying to run 186 miles in one go. 78 miles in, it

Alex Staniforth: was going really well, and out of the blue I just had a seizure. Now that was the end of that.

Often that's the case

Alex Staniforth: I think it's partially it's wanting something enough. Like,

Alex Staniforth: if you want something, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll probably find an excuse, as the old

Alex Staniforth: saying goes.

Aleksandra King: So so are you saying you don't want it bad enough, then?

Alex Staniforth: Often that's the case. And I I think the c the difference between success and failure, in my opinion,

Alex Staniforth: is often about commitment. Like, you burn the bridges, you throw yourself in. It's not a case of, oh,

Alex Staniforth: I'd like to do that. It's a case of, I'm doing it. Even our language matters. The final thing I'd

Alex Staniforth: say to those people is often, instead of asking what could happen, you know, what could go wrong,

Alex Staniforth: what if I fail, what if people think I'm stupid, what if this happens, is asking, what could

Alex Staniforth: happen if I don't? Kind of reframing that in terms of being motivated you know, away from

Alex Staniforth: something rather than

Alex Staniforth: towards something. I love that. I think that's powerful. I think it's a stronger motivation if you're avoiding something than it is

Aleksandra King: to actually go towards something. Um So I think how we frame that in our minds is really important.

Aleksandra King: Yeah, that's completely relevant, because on the mountain, on Everest, failure really could be death, very quickly.

Aleksandra King: So if you want to avoid death, what do you need to do? I mean, what are the things that you need to do?

Aleksandra King: You need to have acclimatised, what else do you need to do?

Pre preparation, everything

Aleksandra King: Yeah, there is a lot to it. And I mean, yeah, pre preparation, everything. i you know Everest is

Alex Staniforth: probably 90% mental, only 10% physical, in terms of how you approach it. And I

Alex Staniforth: mean that was one of the main things I learned after the first trip, is you can be the fittest,

Alex Staniforth: strongest f athlete in the world, your body will react very differently at altitude. And I think in

Alex Staniforth: terms of managing the risk, I mean Tim, our leader, always spoke about kind of raising the safety net.

Go home and rest

Alex Staniforth: you know I could barely run more than 10 meters at a time, for

Alex Staniforth: the swelling and the shin pain, and that's what happens when you try and run 50 miles a day, day

Alex Staniforth: after day after day. And I remember having an email off one of my sponsors telling me to stop. And

Alex Staniforth: they basically said something on the lines of, you know, we've been watching your progress, you're not

Alex Staniforth: going to make it, so why not you know just call it a day in

Alex Staniforth: and go home and rest? Yeah. And that comes from a place of care and intention and and you know, good

Alex Staniforth: intention. Um And in my head I was thinking, okay, this is a sign that it's gone too far, this is

Alex Staniforth: reckless here. But then I justify I I justified that in my head in terms of, I know myself and my

Alex Staniforth: body better than anyone, and actually I've been in this position before. And so ultimately it's about

Alex Staniforth: not not necessarily you know hearing what you want to hear, it, but hearing what you need to hear.

Alex Staniforth: you know. And a lot of people could have taken that as

Alex Staniforth: a reason, there's a good reason to stop, but I think you I think only if you're willing to risk

Alex Staniforth: going too far can we find out what's really possible. And I I I I've taken that risk. and and al And

Alex Staniforth: ultimately, often it's been things that I haven't anticipated, the things that have gone wrong, it

Alex Staniforth: wasn't like a known risk, for example. um I was trying to run the Coast to Coast a few years ago,

Alex Staniforth: which is trying to run 186 miles in one go. 78 miles in, it was

Alex Staniforth: going really well, and out of the blue I just had a seizure. Now that was

Alex Staniforth: the end of that. Never anticipated. It wasn't on the risk register. You know, I'd not had a seizure

Alex Staniforth: for 17 years. I've been doing all this hah having almost treated epilepsy as if it's gone.

Listening to your inner voice, to your intuition

Alex Staniforth: Just by having people around us who are better than us. That's incredible advice, really, that you got the advice. Because we don't

Aleksandra King: ask enough. We don't ask people for help. We don't necessarily go to the experts when we should. But that information

Aleksandra King: is power. And if someone, that is what they do, why not go to them and get the information? Because

Aleksandra King: then you're well informed, then you can make the decision.

Aleksandra King: And the other point that you raised, which I love, I love it so much, is the whole thing about

Aleksandra King: listening to your inner voice, to your intuition. You know yourself better than anyone, that's what

Aleksandra King: you've said, I know myself better than anyone. And that is valid. No one will know you the way you

Aleksandra King: know yourself. So if you you really feel something, your instinct, you should trust it. And actually,

Aleksandra King: there's huge danger and risk in not listening to your intuition.

Alex Staniforth: Mm-hmm. There is. And the more I've made d uh I make decisions, the more I learn to trust it, because

Alex Staniforth: generally it's pretty right. And when I've gone against it, I've seen the evidence of that as well.

Alex Staniforth: Um And ultimately, like I knew that if I didn't get back out there soon and try again, that this

Alex Staniforth: thing wasn't going to happen. I was never going to get back out there. I was just going to stay in this pit

Alex Staniforth: of worry and and kind of what-ifs. and you know I need to get on on the bandwagon again very quickly,

Alex Staniforth: otherwise I was never going to get back out there. So that's why, when people were saying to me,

Alex Staniforth: like, you know, is it sensible to go back out there again when you've just had a seizure, And I

Alex Staniforth: said it was never sensible to begin with. you know. Um And six weeks later I went back, and I got

Alex Staniforth: 124 miles before I stopped, not because of a seizure, just because of the joys

Alex Staniforth: of ultra running. So you know, I think a lot of it comes from instinct, but it also comes from

Alex Staniforth: having experts, you know, and people that you trust and rely on. And you know, ultimately, if it

Alex Staniforth: feels wrong, like it probably is. you know. And if it persists long enough, you

Alex Staniforth: if you've if you know that you're going against your own inner voice, then I think there's

Alex Staniforth: something really off.

Experiences and the people I've been able to encounter

Alex Staniforth: I don't really remember

Alex Staniforth: much about this, other than maybe being conventional, in in conventionally in the loose terms of, like,

Alex Staniforth: I did what everyone else did. I wanted to fit in. I just did kind of normal things. There's

Alex Staniforth: nothing wrong with that, but I didn't have any real ambition or purpose for my life. Um And so I

Alex Staniforth: would never change anything. you know, I think Obviously back then it's great, when you don't have the

Alex Staniforth: commitments and the pressures and and all that of life now, but I've chosen all that for myself. And

Alex Staniforth: you know I think I'm very grateful for all the adversity, because it's got me to where I am, and the

Alex Staniforth: experiences and the people I've been able to encounter. Um So could I go back? It feels so long ago

Alex Staniforth: that I can't even imagine or even feel it any more. You're just not that person. For me, it feels like uh it w I'd be stepping

Alex Staniforth: down from where I am. And I want to be stepping up, not go not going backwards.

Aleksandra King: Yeah. What's the biggest misconception people have about mental toughness, do you think?

Alex Staniforth: I mean, I see you know I see probably m resilience being a concept well being a component, sorry, of

Alex Staniforth: mental toughness, so if we if we see it as the same kind of thing. I think often people see that

Alex Staniforth: that resilience piece as you know the ability to just keep on pushing, to be stoic. you know That

Alex Staniforth: ability to kind of keep being punched and keep on going, and keep on going, and keep on running, or keep

Alex Staniforth: on striving in business. I think actually the conception of it is is is actually that conception, and

Alex Staniforth: that definition, is wrong. My definition of resilience,

Alex Staniforth: to be sustainable, is that ability to recharge. It's knowing when to step back, to reassess, to regroup,

Alex Staniforth: to go again. like Not to keep on going until you've kind of crashed and burned, because I've

Alex Staniforth: burnt out before, and I've learned from that. And I think the misconception of toughness is that

Alex Staniforth: almost ability to n you know to almost avoid pain. I don't think it's avoiding pain. I think it's

Alex Staniforth: just dealing with it in a different way, And even if that means taking a step back, you know taking

Alex Staniforth: care of yourself.

Left for the fight

Alex Staniforth: you know, And back to that point earlier on, I

Alex Staniforth: would never want to go back to living a life that's less than I'm capable of. you know. Um But the as

Alex Staniforth: always, the opportunity that came from that is I'm now s I'm much better at saying no to things,

Alex Staniforth: and I know when my energy level is is down. and you know Even with the charity, it's ironic that the

Alex Staniforth: charity burnt me out, because I cared too much, and I gave too much of myself, and there was nothing

Alex Staniforth: left for the fight. And you can't help anyone, you can't lead, when you're burnt out.

Aleksandra King: Okay, so talk to us about the charity. so, what what What was it, what did you do, what happened?

Alex Staniforth: Well, I think after Everest I kind of realized that maybe big mountains weren't for me, and you know I

Alex Staniforth: I've really switched to focusing on ultra-endurance challenges in the UK, and trying to do things

Alex Staniforth: that maybe haven't been done before. And along the lines, you know that led to um a chance

Alex Staniforth: conversation, and then doing an event in the Lake District in 2018, with a group called

Alex Staniforth: Adventure Uncovered, and basically a retreat to promote the benefits of of nature and hill walking

Alex Staniforth: for mental health. Now, I've used nature as my therapy since I've been a teenager. And

Alex Staniforth: I've had therapy, I've been on on all sorts of medications, and and still, being in nature is the

Alex Staniforth: cheapest and the best therapist I've had.

Alex Staniforth: I'm not saying it's a miracle cure, and anyone should just go out and do it and they'll be c they'll

Alex Staniforth: they'll be fine, it's something we have to manage, but I do think that it's it's something everyone

Alex Staniforth: should have access to.

I'm it's a real privilege now

Alex Staniforth: And so it's about giving people that space, so they don't have to wait for help on a waiting list, like I did, for months or years. And I think ultimately the charity came about because it took me longer to get the help I needed as a teenager, with

Alex Staniforth: my own struggles, than it did to cycle, walk and run 5,000 miles around the country. So the charity kind of grew from that opportunity, and it's just gone from there. And

Alex Staniforth: it's kind of m my baby, really.

Aleksandra King: It's your baby. You proud of it?

Alex Staniforth: Yeah. you know Like any any baby, it has tantrums. But you know I'm it's a real privilege now,

Alex Staniforth: almost, as a founder and as a trustee, to to have handed it on, to sort of step back and to focus on

Alex Staniforth: you know where can I make my biggest impact, for us to reach where we need to be. you, know And um

Alex Staniforth: part of that was reaching burnout, and having to admit to our team, like, uh this isn't sustainable,

Alex Staniforth: if I go down, the whole thing's going to go down, and being able to let go and put my hand up. And I

Alex Staniforth: think as as leaders that's really important.

Alex Staniforth: It's very difficult to do.

Aleksandra King: It is, it is. I just had to set the example. But had had we not done that, I don't think the charity

Alex Staniforth: would be thriving as it is now.

That's epilepsy, whether that's just self-doubt or self-confidence

Alex Staniforth: You know, I think ultimately, I I I

Alex Staniforth: really I really think my my journey is around resilience through adversity. And I really want people to

Alex Staniforth: think that, whatever is going on for them in their life, I'd like to see myself as an example that

Alex Staniforth: it can be done, in the same way that I had role models and people that I followed, who showed me it

Alex Staniforth: could be done, even when life gives you lots of reasons not to. Whether that's a stammer, whether

Alex Staniforth: that's epilepsy, whether that's just self-doubt or self-confidence

Alex Staniforth: or anxiety, or whatever whatever that is, You know I want people to to really realize that actually,

Alex Staniforth: you know the time is now. If you've been wanting to do something, you know you've got to throw

Alex Staniforth: yourself in the deep end, commit yourself. Because people don't don't don't commit, because they

Alex Staniforth: find reasons not to. And deep down, if they're really honest with themselves, I think the biggest barrier

Alex Staniforth: is themselves. So I want them to think that actually, like if I can be knocked down time and time

Alex Staniforth: again and keep on going, you know it's success is very

Alex Staniforth: a relative. you know, As I said before, y I might be fine on a stage in front of hundreds of people,

Alex Staniforth: or running a marathon in the mountains in the wind and the rain. Put me in a social situation, put

Alex Staniforth: me you know, put me on The Apprentice, and I'd be terrified. you know. Um

Alex Staniforth: Put me on the London Underground in a packed Tube and I'll go I'll go mad. But everyone has their own challenges, and it's relative. And I think ultimately, we spend so

Alex Staniforth: much time comparing ourselves to other people, rather than comparing ourselves to where we used

Alex Staniforth: to be and where we want to be. I think that's all that really matters.

Close

Guide: That was Alex Staniforth speaking with Aleksandra King on The BEYOND Podcast. Visit BEYONDai.media to learn more. See you on the next episode.

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Narration is AI-generated. Everything said in the conversation is human.